WAR is kinda bs. Overrates HRs, underrates BBs and OBP. Don't bother arguing with me. Just accept I did research and it reads like that to me. Using it over the eye test is stupid. I want my HOFers to be pretty damn great on one side of an inning, and very good on the other side. Either their offense or defense has to be spectacular, and the other has to be well above average. Only well rounded players deserve to go in. Spectacular defense with strong hitting should be equal to the opposite, and more than enough.
Brandon Phillip is one of the top 5 fielding 2Bs of all time. The eye test is enough proof. His hitting was strong, but not greatness level. He is Jeff Kent in reverse, maybe a stronger candidate than Kent. Edmunds was/is much stronger than Kent, but 2Bs have a lower standard to be compared to offensively. The whole thing is subjective on so many levels. Some guys are hated by voters, and they get shafted. The HOF is more an exercise in phantasy than reality. It really doesn't mean a lot to me. Give me guys like Hal Morris and Joe Oliver and Spuds and I'll get you to a World Series. Barry Larkin didn't succeed in a vacuum. Hard nosed competitors get you victories day to day. Louie Pinella knew that and made it a philosophy.
Mahomes. High Ankle Sprain. We're all hearing it, way too much of it. Anyone, anyone at all talking about, or planning for Chad Henne? Just wondering. You know, because I sure do not want to see "Chad's Chiefs" take down Burrow's Bengals while everybody is wondering what happened to High Ankle Sprain Mahomes. Go Bengals!
I guess it is like my business advisor says, "plan for the unexpected". Andy is a smart guy and will have surprises and plays we have never seen before. Zach is a smart guy too, so will see who can execute better, I suppose. I am sure Kelce will be looking for revenge from the last game so better be ready for that. I will be sure to sit in the same chair and wear the same clothes as last Sunday. :)
Walter Brennan was one of the greatest actors of all-time. He played sidekicks, good guys, and black-hearted villains with equal greatness. Compare him in "Rio Bravo" to "Red River" to "My Darling Clementine". He and Robert Duvall are probably the two greatest character actors of all-time. As a matter of fact, Robert Duvall, to me, is the greatest film actor of all time. Not my favorite actor, but the greatest actor. "I'm not talkin' about dyin', Woodrow, I'm talkin' about livin'!!"
KC is now favored by 1. Stay mad, Mixon! Run angry all day!!
I don't care about WAR and all that new stat crud. I'm an old dog who has learned lots of new tricks, but when it comes to Baseball, I care about what I see with my eyes and the traditional box score. But, to each their own. Kent was a douche, but he's got many of the numbers to get in. But, he made Barry Bonds likeable by comparison.
Do you remember a short-lived series Walter Brennan was in called "The Guns of Will Sonnet" ? It was on Friday nights in the late 60s - I know you're a fellow OG. But not sure if that old!.. BTW, great Gus McRea reference! One of the best mini-series characters ever.
I've seen the reruns of "The Guns of Will Sonnet" with Walter and Dack Rambo. The original airing of that series was a bit before I was born! :) It was a good show!!
Duvall, among many of his movies, was outstanding in The Apostle. He should have won the Oscar that year but Nicholson grabbed the gold acting in a more mainstream movie.
Glad you added "within the rules, of course." After all, this is not the Stealers (sic) or Ravens who need to play dirty to win. The Bengal's win with Class and Honor under JoJo Cool.
"Maybe it was his career WAR, nearly 16 points fewer than Scott Rolen’s, whom some don’t see as a HOFer. Or maybe it was that I never looked at Jeff Kent and saw superstar."
How did you not see Jeff Kent as a superstar with the Giants in the early 2000s? MVPs are superstars, definitionally. Sure, his face appears designed to ask, "do you know why I pulled you over, son?", but his bat was ultra-elite.
If you ask 1000 retired big leaguers if they would rather have an MVP award or a 16 points higher WAR, 1000 would laugh at the question.
Since Mahomes isn't going to have the time to dance around, I'm sure Lou is prepping for quick release seams to Kelce. I can't wait to see Pratt jump one of those and give the Bengals a big turnover.
Pratt pops up out of the ground like a Solid stone Phoenix right in front of the ball carrier or receiver and you can hear the "splat!" when the carrier/receiver is stood up straight on the spot and wonders what brick wall he ran into. And, Pratt dusts himself off and walks away like a gentleman.
There are 3 Reds that I believe are right there on the borderline of the HOF. Vada, Davey and Joey. I think the first 2 should be in. Joey's a hard one. If he could stay healthy and add some numbers, I'd say yes. I'd sure like all 3 in, though.
Vada has the most hits of any player not in the Hall of Fame, including the juicers. He was my favorite Red as a kid. Frank overshadowed him here. I think Davey suffers similarly from having played on such an elite team. I remember Roger Angell writing about the Big Red Machine and arguing that with all the superstars, Concepcion was the key to the ignition. He reinvented the SS position on the artificial surfaces of that era. Joey? I don't know. Seemed like a lock a few years ago.
Vada was a great player, but there were so many all-time greats in the NL at the same time. He got compared to them constantly. Superstars young and in their prime: Frankie, Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Musial, Billy Williams, even Pete Rose, who moved to the outfield in the late 60s. There was only so much room on the ballot and in the HOF for that many guys. He was more like Tommy Davis, Curt Flood, and Lou Brock. Only Brock is in the HOF.
There are some with more hits than Vada and not in the Hall of Fame. Off the top of my head, Pete Rose, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Johnny Damon. I am sure there are a few others, maybe some that haven't been retired 5 years yet.
Odd that Andy Reid announced Mahomes was playing so early in the week. I don’t buy it. The “secret” iPhone video released by a reporter of Mahomes “practicing” yesterday shows nothing but him moving forward. It’s the side to side motion that counts here in a high ankle sprain (Doc and I were classmates at the same medical school). If the Chiefs dare to ruin their franchise QB by letting him play, there are plenty of within the rules tackles the Bengals can use to test that ankle. Scrape it. Roll with it. Twist it. Pull on it. All legal in getting a player to the ground. I hope it doesn’t come to that but that’s Andy Reid’s decision to make.
My guess is Mahomes will be relatively effective at the start, not so much as the hits and frigid cold take their toll(and whatever they shoot him up with wears thin). Also I suspect he and Mike Hilton will be close personal friends by the end of the game lol
The Bengals SHOULD win Sunday. That said, now that all the talking heads are all of a sudden on the Bengals train and the line is now in the Bengals' favor is enough to make one nervous. The Bengals have excelled as the underdog in the last 2 years, let's see how they start handling being labeled top dog. I don't think it'll faze 'em at all (I hope).
Kent's argument is that he is the best offensive 2B ever. Period. The HOF is awash with average defensive players that could hit. But like I said yesterday with Albert Belle, Kent's a bit of a meanie-pants, so we keep him out. Ultimately the subjectivity (and absurdity) of the HOF process and the "gatekeepers" therein provokes interesting conversation/friendly arguments, so maybe it's not all bad. If there were hard and fast rules and metrics to meet (or not meet), we'd have nothing to talk about.
The Bengals beat 100% Mahomes three times already. Unless the wheels fall off, I think they'll be ready for whichever Mahomes shows up. Maybe he really IS ready for a jazz band!
Regarding the Hall of Fame. It really is a dog and pony show. Everyone wants their favorite guy in and is soooo upset when he isn't "first ballot." I think your "Hall of Very Good," is the best analogy. Didn't you once suggest such a designation, like an "Honorable Mention," kind of thing? There ought to be some sort of middle ground between HOF and non-HOF, but I doubt it would ever come to pass.
The Bengals are better than last year. I think the score will reflect more than 3 points this year and a Bengal win.
Beautiful song.
WAR is kinda bs. Overrates HRs, underrates BBs and OBP. Don't bother arguing with me. Just accept I did research and it reads like that to me. Using it over the eye test is stupid. I want my HOFers to be pretty damn great on one side of an inning, and very good on the other side. Either their offense or defense has to be spectacular, and the other has to be well above average. Only well rounded players deserve to go in. Spectacular defense with strong hitting should be equal to the opposite, and more than enough.
Brandon Phillip is one of the top 5 fielding 2Bs of all time. The eye test is enough proof. His hitting was strong, but not greatness level. He is Jeff Kent in reverse, maybe a stronger candidate than Kent. Edmunds was/is much stronger than Kent, but 2Bs have a lower standard to be compared to offensively. The whole thing is subjective on so many levels. Some guys are hated by voters, and they get shafted. The HOF is more an exercise in phantasy than reality. It really doesn't mean a lot to me. Give me guys like Hal Morris and Joe Oliver and Spuds and I'll get you to a World Series. Barry Larkin didn't succeed in a vacuum. Hard nosed competitors get you victories day to day. Louie Pinella knew that and made it a philosophy.
Mahomes. High Ankle Sprain. We're all hearing it, way too much of it. Anyone, anyone at all talking about, or planning for Chad Henne? Just wondering. You know, because I sure do not want to see "Chad's Chiefs" take down Burrow's Bengals while everybody is wondering what happened to High Ankle Sprain Mahomes. Go Bengals!
I guess it is like my business advisor says, "plan for the unexpected". Andy is a smart guy and will have surprises and plays we have never seen before. Zach is a smart guy too, so will see who can execute better, I suppose. I am sure Kelce will be looking for revenge from the last game so better be ready for that. I will be sure to sit in the same chair and wear the same clothes as last Sunday. :)
Walter Brennan was one of the greatest actors of all-time. He played sidekicks, good guys, and black-hearted villains with equal greatness. Compare him in "Rio Bravo" to "Red River" to "My Darling Clementine". He and Robert Duvall are probably the two greatest character actors of all-time. As a matter of fact, Robert Duvall, to me, is the greatest film actor of all time. Not my favorite actor, but the greatest actor. "I'm not talkin' about dyin', Woodrow, I'm talkin' about livin'!!"
KC is now favored by 1. Stay mad, Mixon! Run angry all day!!
I don't care about WAR and all that new stat crud. I'm an old dog who has learned lots of new tricks, but when it comes to Baseball, I care about what I see with my eyes and the traditional box score. But, to each their own. Kent was a douche, but he's got many of the numbers to get in. But, he made Barry Bonds likeable by comparison.
Do you remember a short-lived series Walter Brennan was in called "The Guns of Will Sonnet" ? It was on Friday nights in the late 60s - I know you're a fellow OG. But not sure if that old!.. BTW, great Gus McRea reference! One of the best mini-series characters ever.
I've seen the reruns of "The Guns of Will Sonnet" with Walter and Dack Rambo. The original airing of that series was a bit before I was born! :) It was a good show!!
Duvall, among many of his movies, was outstanding in The Apostle. He should have won the Oscar that year but Nicholson grabbed the gold acting in a more mainstream movie.
Oh yeah. He was excellent in The Apostle. That was a great flick.
Put some Spicy BBQ Sauce on Patrick’s ankle!!
Well…one would think that ankle is like a turkey leg to a hungry dog for anyone so inclined to…um…take a rip at it…within the rules, of course.
Glad you added "within the rules, of course." After all, this is not the Stealers (sic) or Ravens who need to play dirty to win. The Bengal's win with Class and Honor under JoJo Cool.
It’s a joke. The Ain’ts said that about Peyton Manning back in the day, by a D Lineman. “Gonna put some hot sauce on Peyton’s ankle.”
"Maybe it was his career WAR, nearly 16 points fewer than Scott Rolen’s, whom some don’t see as a HOFer. Or maybe it was that I never looked at Jeff Kent and saw superstar."
How did you not see Jeff Kent as a superstar with the Giants in the early 2000s? MVPs are superstars, definitionally. Sure, his face appears designed to ask, "do you know why I pulled you over, son?", but his bat was ultra-elite.
If you ask 1000 retired big leaguers if they would rather have an MVP award or a 16 points higher WAR, 1000 would laugh at the question.
Since Mahomes isn't going to have the time to dance around, I'm sure Lou is prepping for quick release seams to Kelce. I can't wait to see Pratt jump one of those and give the Bengals a big turnover.
Pratt pops up out of the ground like a Solid stone Phoenix right in front of the ball carrier or receiver and you can hear the "splat!" when the carrier/receiver is stood up straight on the spot and wonders what brick wall he ran into. And, Pratt dusts himself off and walks away like a gentleman.
Make it a Who Dey:
https://elishasforce.substack.com/p/january-26th
https://elishasforce.substack.com/p/january-24th-b64
There are 3 Reds that I believe are right there on the borderline of the HOF. Vada, Davey and Joey. I think the first 2 should be in. Joey's a hard one. If he could stay healthy and add some numbers, I'd say yes. I'd sure like all 3 in, though.
Vada has the most hits of any player not in the Hall of Fame, including the juicers. He was my favorite Red as a kid. Frank overshadowed him here. I think Davey suffers similarly from having played on such an elite team. I remember Roger Angell writing about the Big Red Machine and arguing that with all the superstars, Concepcion was the key to the ignition. He reinvented the SS position on the artificial surfaces of that era. Joey? I don't know. Seemed like a lock a few years ago.
Vada was a great player, but there were so many all-time greats in the NL at the same time. He got compared to them constantly. Superstars young and in their prime: Frankie, Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Musial, Billy Williams, even Pete Rose, who moved to the outfield in the late 60s. There was only so much room on the ballot and in the HOF for that many guys. He was more like Tommy Davis, Curt Flood, and Lou Brock. Only Brock is in the HOF.
There are some with more hits than Vada and not in the Hall of Fame. Off the top of my head, Pete Rose, Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Johnny Damon. I am sure there are a few others, maybe some that haven't been retired 5 years yet.
Odd that Andy Reid announced Mahomes was playing so early in the week. I don’t buy it. The “secret” iPhone video released by a reporter of Mahomes “practicing” yesterday shows nothing but him moving forward. It’s the side to side motion that counts here in a high ankle sprain (Doc and I were classmates at the same medical school). If the Chiefs dare to ruin their franchise QB by letting him play, there are plenty of within the rules tackles the Bengals can use to test that ankle. Scrape it. Roll with it. Twist it. Pull on it. All legal in getting a player to the ground. I hope it doesn’t come to that but that’s Andy Reid’s decision to make.
My guess is Mahomes will be relatively effective at the start, not so much as the hits and frigid cold take their toll(and whatever they shoot him up with wears thin). Also I suspect he and Mike Hilton will be close personal friends by the end of the game lol
And then there was music. What is not to like about Carle Simon. Alas, she was a James Taylor protégé. Or perhaps protégé is the wrong word.
The Bengals SHOULD win Sunday. That said, now that all the talking heads are all of a sudden on the Bengals train and the line is now in the Bengals' favor is enough to make one nervous. The Bengals have excelled as the underdog in the last 2 years, let's see how they start handling being labeled top dog. I don't think it'll faze 'em at all (I hope).
Kent's argument is that he is the best offensive 2B ever. Period. The HOF is awash with average defensive players that could hit. But like I said yesterday with Albert Belle, Kent's a bit of a meanie-pants, so we keep him out. Ultimately the subjectivity (and absurdity) of the HOF process and the "gatekeepers" therein provokes interesting conversation/friendly arguments, so maybe it's not all bad. If there were hard and fast rules and metrics to meet (or not meet), we'd have nothing to talk about.
The Bengals beat 100% Mahomes three times already. Unless the wheels fall off, I think they'll be ready for whichever Mahomes shows up. Maybe he really IS ready for a jazz band!
Regarding the Hall of Fame. It really is a dog and pony show. Everyone wants their favorite guy in and is soooo upset when he isn't "first ballot." I think your "Hall of Very Good," is the best analogy. Didn't you once suggest such a designation, like an "Honorable Mention," kind of thing? There ought to be some sort of middle ground between HOF and non-HOF, but I doubt it would ever come to pass.
I did suggest that, tongue in cheek. Maybe time to remove the tongue from the cheek.
A poetic perspective ...
Patrick’s ankle has been quite the story,
While Bengals O-line may still be a worry?
What? Me Worry? I just hope we see the same O line we had Sunday.
Me too. Not trying to be Debbi Downer but then again it was a 1 game sample. KC D-line better than the Bison.
I'm pushing myself to stay positive. Don't want to live a Debbie Downer.