I'm late and know it but I need to submit my ethos on this.
I was an 8 year old cherub shaped, freckled faced kid growing up in a Cincinnati suburb. I had no natural athletic skills, parents didn't play sports and didn't see the need for me to play either. But in 1970 the Reds "found" me and because of 2 guys named Rose and Bench my world changed. Pete spoke at a school assembly that year and I actually got close enough to shake his hand and get an autograph that I still have. He looked like a Marvel Comic book Super Hero. He was a giant man in a burgundy leisure suit, mop top hair cut and a gap between his front teeth. I'm 100% certain his speech that day was directed at me. He talked about not being the biggest, the fastest or the best natural player and that success was in being a hard worker, good teammate, striding to improve and winning. Bingo....that's what I was going to be. A big league ballplayer like Pete Rose.
"So what" you say...you and a billion other kids. Well this is what happened: I worked so hard over the next 10 years on being a better baseball player that my parents were concerned. My Dad did an intervention my freshman year of HS to let me know I wasn't going to play in the Majors and not likely HS and that I should redirect my efforts to something that would pay off like homework. But, I kept going. I grew, got stronger, and better. I made the HS team my Junior year (after getting cut twice). I walked on in college and made the team. I bribed the equipment manager to be issued jersey #14 (insert Pete joke here). I sat the bench for 2 years, kept working, got better and played key roles as a utility player. I played First base, Third Base and Catcher and made myself valuable to the team. I was invited to try-outs for the US Pan-Am games team and had "chat's" with the Chicago Cubs and Kansas City Royals (but no offers), although the family joke is that I approached them when they were scouting my teammates.
Nice you say. But wait there's more. When my baseball career ended post college I went to work. I found a job with an engineering firm in their HR department. I am sure that I only got the job because on my resume it mentioned playing in college and the company had a softball team. The hiring manager quizzed me more about that than any actual work related skill I may or may not have had. I got the job and through the same principals (hard work, team work, and winning) I was promoted and became the manager. That job took me many more places, each one bigger and better.
I've already shared too much but my log-in and passwords for every job I've had for the last 30 years are all related to Pete Rose. My first password on an old voicemail system was Hustle14 and even now when I log on each day there's a reminder of Pete and Hustle is the first word I type. Weird? yes, but important.
In trying to conclude my manifesto let me say that when the news, evidence, and punishment happened I was crushed. Then he admitted he was lying and then other terrible news came out on his actions outside of his marriages and I was deeply hurt . However, with his passing I've relived my relationship with Pete Rose and want to thank him, especially that 8 year old little boy. Hustle Forever!
Since his passing, I've been casually searching for an article like this: one that captured the complexity of Pete Rose's legacy with compassion and without damning or exalting judgment.
As a child, I remember the myth of Rose: the opportunity to see him on Saturday afternoon televised games, collecting his image on cardboard, and tracking his stats in the annual Smith & Street yearbooks. Later, I interpreted Rose as a cautionary tale where nobody could be bigger than the consequences of their actions - even his Wrestlemania appearances seemed to poke fun at this fact. Now, he seems to be a story that ended without resolution. But above all, it was enjoyable to read this remembrance of him as a person.
Doc, you said it accurately. Of all the things I ever imagined, Pete Rose dying was NEVER one of them. Like you and everyone else, I’m conflicted on the HOF thing. But, like Tom Bruns so eloquently put it, his baseballs, bats, jersey and his records are all already in the HOF and, really, that’s enough. When talk of the most unforgettable character comes up from now on, for any true Cincinnatian, especially those of us who were teenagers when he was playing, there’s only one answer to that question. Pete Rose was truly the most unforgettable character EVER. AND, if one think about it, maybe THAT, by itself, is PETE’s legacy.
Pete Rose was a simple and complicated guy. I loved watching him play. Pete the manager and human was a different story. He made his bed and will live in it forever.
Shoeless Joe never got a sniff of the Hall, and his case is much more credible. Pete did it. Lied about it. Profited off it. Hope he’s at peace.
Appreciate the clarity in dissecting baseball’s most complicated character. Speaking of character, other than Rose, character has never been a prerequisite for entering the HOF, yet somehow for The Cincinnati Kid it became his albatross.
Will always wonder if Pete had just come clean right off the bat with his gambling on baseball would he be in the Hall of Fame today? Possibly even decades ago?
If he lied about not betting on baseball what else might he have lied about.....not betting on his own team??
His exclusion from the HoF isn't as much about getting caught gambling on the game he loved, as it is because he lied about not doing it.
When the breaking news came up on local TV last night with the announcement of Pete's death, the news crew went quiet and they had difficulty focusing on closing the hour, it was obvious. I think we all went into shock. For me, this is the last straw that broke the camel's back. We all saw his sadness and the dark hole he lived in...we saw it coming and turning out this way, and this was the slap in the face to Cincinnati and the greatest baseball player of all time in my book. I only saw him in one game in 1974 when I was here on a visit at a Red's game, and I will never forget how he slid into home base with such reckless abandon....face and chest first, dirt flying, looking like a seal escaping from a shark...hat flying off and hair flying the in breeze he created.
Bob Costas summarized Pete this morning on ESPN with quips like this....not to put him in the Hall of Fame was "cruel and unusual punishment." In 1991 the MLB established the rule to "ban players from getting into the MLB Hall of Fame in 1991, the year Pete became eligible to get inducted. Pretty obvious move, that. "Somebody had 4,256 hits." And if he gets in now, posthumously, it's cruel to all because..."he can't smell the Roses" that he so deserved.
I speak for most of Cincinnati Sports fans, "Our hearts are broken." And I thank God he was inducted into the Reds Hall of Fame. That meant a lot to him.
Sorry for you, Doc. I know he was your friend and always a good interview.
Everyone who thinks baseball was just waiting for Pete to die to allow him into HoF isn't dealing with reality. The reality is Joe Jackson has been dead since 1951 and because he bet on baseball he has never been voted into the Hall. Pete Rose will suffer the same fate. Within the next 20 years or so everyone who saw Pete play will be dead and gone and all the will remain will be the story that he committed the cardinal sin of betting not only on baseball but betting on his home team.
I thought Jackson agreed to throw the World Series for money. Even though he reneged and played well, he was in the room and didn’t bring the info to authorities.
The gamblers were acquitted in criminal court but MLB found them guilty and tossed them out. Jackson subsequently sued the Sox for back pay and in that trial a deposit receipt from Jackson’s bank showed that his wife deposited 5k in their account a few days after the alleged bribe payments.
I grew up with Pete. Was in the stands when he hit 4192. He could use a bat to hit a ball anywhere he wanted at his discretion. I’ll never forget the ballplayer. Unfortunately, he made it so we can’t forget the gambler either. RIP Pete.
He swore he never bet against the Reds. I believe that he never threw a game on that type of bet. It just wasn't in him to throw a game against his most beloved team.
I was a 10th grader in Atlanta when Pete was on his 44 game hitting streak. The Braves brought in their closer, Gene Garber, in the 9th in a 16-4 game they were winning. Just to stop Pete's hitting streak. Thinking back on it, seems a microcosm of what MLB did to him over a lifetime of success. Baseball powers just didn't want him to reach the pinnacle. I'm confident that in Pete's list of personal goals, DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak would come in right behind the HOF.
Did anyone else get a 15 euro charge today for accessing Substack’s Italian arm, CiabattaStacka? Had I known ahead of time, I could have bought a week’s worth of access for 5 euro to read Medico’s musing from Montepulciano.
Sitting on a dock looking out at the bay in St George Florida and heard the news ( this beautiful spot was spared). Tears came to my eyes for the flawed legend. He was a hero in my time then turned into a villain I never saw him as such. If you ever knew anyone with this affliction you knew not all is black and white still wallow in my tears and remember the joy he gave instead.
I'm late and know it but I need to submit my ethos on this.
I was an 8 year old cherub shaped, freckled faced kid growing up in a Cincinnati suburb. I had no natural athletic skills, parents didn't play sports and didn't see the need for me to play either. But in 1970 the Reds "found" me and because of 2 guys named Rose and Bench my world changed. Pete spoke at a school assembly that year and I actually got close enough to shake his hand and get an autograph that I still have. He looked like a Marvel Comic book Super Hero. He was a giant man in a burgundy leisure suit, mop top hair cut and a gap between his front teeth. I'm 100% certain his speech that day was directed at me. He talked about not being the biggest, the fastest or the best natural player and that success was in being a hard worker, good teammate, striding to improve and winning. Bingo....that's what I was going to be. A big league ballplayer like Pete Rose.
"So what" you say...you and a billion other kids. Well this is what happened: I worked so hard over the next 10 years on being a better baseball player that my parents were concerned. My Dad did an intervention my freshman year of HS to let me know I wasn't going to play in the Majors and not likely HS and that I should redirect my efforts to something that would pay off like homework. But, I kept going. I grew, got stronger, and better. I made the HS team my Junior year (after getting cut twice). I walked on in college and made the team. I bribed the equipment manager to be issued jersey #14 (insert Pete joke here). I sat the bench for 2 years, kept working, got better and played key roles as a utility player. I played First base, Third Base and Catcher and made myself valuable to the team. I was invited to try-outs for the US Pan-Am games team and had "chat's" with the Chicago Cubs and Kansas City Royals (but no offers), although the family joke is that I approached them when they were scouting my teammates.
Nice you say. But wait there's more. When my baseball career ended post college I went to work. I found a job with an engineering firm in their HR department. I am sure that I only got the job because on my resume it mentioned playing in college and the company had a softball team. The hiring manager quizzed me more about that than any actual work related skill I may or may not have had. I got the job and through the same principals (hard work, team work, and winning) I was promoted and became the manager. That job took me many more places, each one bigger and better.
I've already shared too much but my log-in and passwords for every job I've had for the last 30 years are all related to Pete Rose. My first password on an old voicemail system was Hustle14 and even now when I log on each day there's a reminder of Pete and Hustle is the first word I type. Weird? yes, but important.
In trying to conclude my manifesto let me say that when the news, evidence, and punishment happened I was crushed. Then he admitted he was lying and then other terrible news came out on his actions outside of his marriages and I was deeply hurt . However, with his passing I've relived my relationship with Pete Rose and want to thank him, especially that 8 year old little boy. Hustle Forever!
Since his passing, I've been casually searching for an article like this: one that captured the complexity of Pete Rose's legacy with compassion and without damning or exalting judgment.
As a child, I remember the myth of Rose: the opportunity to see him on Saturday afternoon televised games, collecting his image on cardboard, and tracking his stats in the annual Smith & Street yearbooks. Later, I interpreted Rose as a cautionary tale where nobody could be bigger than the consequences of their actions - even his Wrestlemania appearances seemed to poke fun at this fact. Now, he seems to be a story that ended without resolution. But above all, it was enjoyable to read this remembrance of him as a person.
Doc, you said it accurately. Of all the things I ever imagined, Pete Rose dying was NEVER one of them. Like you and everyone else, I’m conflicted on the HOF thing. But, like Tom Bruns so eloquently put it, his baseballs, bats, jersey and his records are all already in the HOF and, really, that’s enough. When talk of the most unforgettable character comes up from now on, for any true Cincinnatian, especially those of us who were teenagers when he was playing, there’s only one answer to that question. Pete Rose was truly the most unforgettable character EVER. AND, if one think about it, maybe THAT, by itself, is PETE’s legacy.
Pete Rose was a simple and complicated guy. I loved watching him play. Pete the manager and human was a different story. He made his bed and will live in it forever.
Shoeless Joe never got a sniff of the Hall, and his case is much more credible. Pete did it. Lied about it. Profited off it. Hope he’s at peace.
Appreciate the clarity in dissecting baseball’s most complicated character. Speaking of character, other than Rose, character has never been a prerequisite for entering the HOF, yet somehow for The Cincinnati Kid it became his albatross.
He was very good at selling his childlike innocence outside PH...I'll say that much. He saw us coming
Will always wonder if Pete had just come clean right off the bat with his gambling on baseball would he be in the Hall of Fame today? Possibly even decades ago?
If he lied about not betting on baseball what else might he have lied about.....not betting on his own team??
His exclusion from the HoF isn't as much about getting caught gambling on the game he loved, as it is because he lied about not doing it.
When the breaking news came up on local TV last night with the announcement of Pete's death, the news crew went quiet and they had difficulty focusing on closing the hour, it was obvious. I think we all went into shock. For me, this is the last straw that broke the camel's back. We all saw his sadness and the dark hole he lived in...we saw it coming and turning out this way, and this was the slap in the face to Cincinnati and the greatest baseball player of all time in my book. I only saw him in one game in 1974 when I was here on a visit at a Red's game, and I will never forget how he slid into home base with such reckless abandon....face and chest first, dirt flying, looking like a seal escaping from a shark...hat flying off and hair flying the in breeze he created.
Bob Costas summarized Pete this morning on ESPN with quips like this....not to put him in the Hall of Fame was "cruel and unusual punishment." In 1991 the MLB established the rule to "ban players from getting into the MLB Hall of Fame in 1991, the year Pete became eligible to get inducted. Pretty obvious move, that. "Somebody had 4,256 hits." And if he gets in now, posthumously, it's cruel to all because..."he can't smell the Roses" that he so deserved.
I speak for most of Cincinnati Sports fans, "Our hearts are broken." And I thank God he was inducted into the Reds Hall of Fame. That meant a lot to him.
Sorry for you, Doc. I know he was your friend and always a good interview.
Everyone who thinks baseball was just waiting for Pete to die to allow him into HoF isn't dealing with reality. The reality is Joe Jackson has been dead since 1951 and because he bet on baseball he has never been voted into the Hall. Pete Rose will suffer the same fate. Within the next 20 years or so everyone who saw Pete play will be dead and gone and all the will remain will be the story that he committed the cardinal sin of betting not only on baseball but betting on his home team.
I thought Jackson agreed to throw the World Series for money. Even though he reneged and played well, he was in the room and didn’t bring the info to authorities.
The gamblers were acquitted in criminal court but MLB found them guilty and tossed them out. Jackson subsequently sued the Sox for back pay and in that trial a deposit receipt from Jackson’s bank showed that his wife deposited 5k in their account a few days after the alleged bribe payments.
I grew up with Pete. Was in the stands when he hit 4192. He could use a bat to hit a ball anywhere he wanted at his discretion. I’ll never forget the ballplayer. Unfortunately, he made it so we can’t forget the gambler either. RIP Pete.
He swore he never bet against the Reds. I believe that he never threw a game on that type of bet. It just wasn't in him to throw a game against his most beloved team.
I was a 10th grader in Atlanta when Pete was on his 44 game hitting streak. The Braves brought in their closer, Gene Garber, in the 9th in a 16-4 game they were winning. Just to stop Pete's hitting streak. Thinking back on it, seems a microcosm of what MLB did to him over a lifetime of success. Baseball powers just didn't want him to reach the pinnacle. I'm confident that in Pete's list of personal goals, DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak would come in right behind the HOF.
Well done today, Doc! Ciao.
Did anyone else get a 15 euro charge today for accessing Substack’s Italian arm, CiabattaStacka? Had I known ahead of time, I could have bought a week’s worth of access for 5 euro to read Medico’s musing from Montepulciano.
Mamma Mia!
I wonder if there is a betting line yet on whether Pete gets in the HOF. I think that would give him a chuckle.
Sitting on a dock looking out at the bay in St George Florida and heard the news ( this beautiful spot was spared). Tears came to my eyes for the flawed legend. He was a hero in my time then turned into a villain I never saw him as such. If you ever knew anyone with this affliction you knew not all is black and white still wallow in my tears and remember the joy he gave instead.
The Peter Edward Rose Sr National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum
Thanks Paul. Very sad day for me. Baseball’s hypocrisy knows no bounds.